B4A backs up tens of thousands of empty folders :-(

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David.P
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Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 1:22 pm

B4A backs up tens of thousands of empty folders :-(

Post by David.P » Tue May 11, 2010 1:34 pm

Hi forum,

just registered because I want to say that I can't for the life of me get the hang of the fact that B4A every couple of incremental backups (probably every time when it figures it must do a "full" backup) backs up every single one of some ten thousand folders (which are backed up EMPTY! because files only have changed in like three of these ten thousand folders......) Image

This is RIDICULOUS! It is useless, takes incredibly long, uses up my computer's resources, multiplies the size of the backup -- simply put, it is plain stu*id to back up LOADS OF stuff that a) contains no data and b) doesn't match the backup file filter.

PLEASE CHANGE THIS BEHAVIOR such that folders that don't contain ANY file that matches one of the backup filters are SKIPPED!

Thanks.
David.P

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Re: B4A backs up tens of thousands of empty folders :-(

Post by Support » Wed May 12, 2010 11:49 am

Hi,

From your description it seems you did not configured correctly the backup job.
Please send us the backup catalog and the last backup log to support[at]backup4all[dot]com.
To find the catalog, go to View->Open Folder->Catalog Folder.
To find the log, go to View->Job Logs->Last backup log.
Put the files into a zip archive.

David.P
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 1:22 pm

Re: B4A backs up tens of thousands of empty folders :-(

Post by David.P » Wed May 12, 2010 12:43 pm

This has been discussed at length already with your support team. In the end I was told (about B4A's behavior to back up EVERY SINGLE folder below the source path(s) as empty folder when doing a full backup run):
"This is how Backup4all was designed to work and cannot be changed."


Image

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Re: B4A backs up tens of thousands of empty folders :-(

Post by Support » Thu May 13, 2010 10:20 am

Hi,

You did not sent us the requested files.
As I said before, there seems to be something wrong in the way you configured the backup or the filters.
If you run a full backup, it is normal that all source files and folder will be backed up.
You should not perform a full backup if only 3 files were changed.

For an incremental backup, if you have 10 source folders and after the filters are applied, 4 of them remains empty, they will be backed up empty.
If inside those 4 folders you change some files which are excluded from backup, those folders won't be backed up again.
For folders we consider the creation date, not the modified date.

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Re: B4A backs up tens of thousands of empty folders :-(

Post by Support » Fri May 14, 2010 9:45 am

Hi,

You have 473 backup versions (87 of them are full backups).
The number of folders in backup is 2171 not tens of thousands.

As I assumed in the previous post, the empty folders are backed up only when you perform a full backup.
The full backup is performed when the incremental backups since the last full exceeds 50% of the last full backup size.
In your case, the last full backup size is 47 MB.

If you don't want to perform a full backup each time the incremental backups exceeds 50% of the full size, please follow these steps:
1. Open Backup Properties->Incremental
2. Uncheck the "If all increments exceed" 50%... option.
3. Press Save.

David.P
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 1:22 pm

Re: B4A backs up tens of thousands of empty folders :-(

Post by David.P » Fri May 14, 2010 2:46 pm

Support wrote: As I assumed in the previous post, the empty folders are backed up only when you perform a full backup.
But there is NO POINT in backing up (thousands) of empty folders. It's useless. Instead, it only creates the problems and hassle mentioned initially. Why do you do that?
Support wrote:If you don't want to perform a full backup each time the incremental backups exceeds 50% of the full size, please follow these steps:
1. Open Backup Properties->Incremental
2. Uncheck the "If all increments exceed" 50%... option.
3. Press Save.
What is the drawback, if any, of doing so?

David.P

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Re: B4A backs up tens of thousands of empty folders :-(

Post by Support » Wed May 19, 2010 7:39 am

Hi,

1. Many clients wants to back up their empty folders. At this moment there isn't such an option to exclude the empty folders from backup.

2. Unchecking that option will not perform a complete full backup every few backups but only when you ask it to create a full.
That way, when you run the backup only new and modified files will be backed up every time.

David.P
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 1:22 pm

Re: B4A backs up tens of thousands of empty folders :-(

Post by David.P » Wed May 19, 2010 8:10 am

Support wrote:Many clients wants to back up their empty folders. At this moment there isn't such an option to exclude the empty folders from backup.
This obviously means that you changed your mind from
Support wrote:there seems to be something wrong in the way you configured the backup
into

"this is normal program behaviour" Image

Further you said:
Support wrote:If inside those 4 folders you change some files which are excluded from backup, those folders won't be backed up again.
This is obviously WRONG since those (~2000) folders of course are backed up (empty!) again and again (i.e. every time B4A does a full backup).
Support wrote:If you don't want to perform a full backup each time the incremental backups exceeds 50% of the full size, please follow these steps:
1. Open Backup Properties->Incremental
2. Uncheck the "If all increments exceed" 50%... option.
3. Press Save.
Unchecking that option will not perform a complete full backup every few backups but only when you ask it to create a full.
That way, when you run the backup only new and modified files will be backed up every time.
What is the drawback, if any, of doing so?

Support
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Re: B4A backs up tens of thousands of empty folders :-(

Post by Support » Wed May 19, 2010 10:30 am

Hi,

It seems you do not understand what I'm trying to explain you.
I'll try to rephrase it in some short sentences.

1. The wrong way you configured the backup is that you perform a full backup if all your incremental backups have more than 24 MB.
There are only 2-3 modified files backed up two times and you perform a full backup. That is not the point of incremental backup. You are limiting the incremental backup advantage.
As I told you before, the empty folders you are talking about are backed up only when you perform a Full backup. You don't need to perform a full backup so often.
Backing up empty folders is a feature that many clients find it useful.
A full backup will include all files and folders which are in the sources list and were not excluded by filters.

2. I just explained you in the previous post you just need to uncheck that option and you'll see that Full backups won't be created every few days.

David.P
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 1:22 pm

Re: B4A backs up tens of thousands of empty folders :-(

Post by David.P » Wed May 19, 2010 10:51 am

Support wrote:1. The wrong way you configured the backup is that you perform a full backup if all your incremental backups have more than 24 MB.
No. The backup was configured to run the full backup "if all increments exceed 50 % of the full backup size" -- because this is the program default and because the help file says you should do exactly that:
Helpfile wrote:Automatically make full backup

Make full backup when all increments exceed % of full backup size

In time, the size of the incremental can outgrow the full version. For maximum efficiency, the size of the incremental should be kept as small as possible. This option will trigger the creation of a full backup when a certain percentage of the full backup will be exceeded (default is 50%).
Thus, I did not configure anything "wrong". Additionally, I already said in my first post that it backs up all those empty folders when doing a full backup. Then you started saying that my configuration were wrong. In the end it turned out that this is standard program behavior (which I still think is useless and annoying and should at least made optional).
Support wrote:I just explained you in the previous post you just need to uncheck that option and you'll see that Full backups won't be created every few days.
OK, then what is the drawback, if any, of doing so (third time that I'm asking this). The help file says that it has drawbacks.

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